Marine Corps Drill Instructors Abuse

ABUSE BY DRILL INSTRUCTORS

      Along about July I was called to my attention that several drill instructors were to stand court marshall for abusing recruits.  Since my grandson had just went active in July I have followed the case as closely as possible.  In last Sundays paper a small article appeared in which the verdict of one Sgt. was relieved and the findings of the second told.

     A Sgt. Jarrod Glass had been found guilty of striking recruits with a tent pole and a heavy flashlight, he also forced one recruit to jump into a trash can head first then pushed him farther into the can.

     His verdict was eight counts of cruelty and maltreatment of recruits, destruction of personal property, assault and violating orders on how to properly treat recruits.

     Sgt. Glass was sentenced to six months in the brig, a dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and reduction in rank to private.

      A second Sgt.  Brian Wendel was found not guilty of abuse but convicted of failing to report abuses committed by others.  He was also found guilty of drinking beer in the drill instructors offices while off duty.

     He faces a maximum sentence of a year in the brig, a dishonorable discharge and reduction in rank to private.  His sentence was to have imposed this last Monday, but I have not seen any thing further in the paper.

     A third Sgt. is awaiting charges and court marshal.

     When I was first made aware of these charges in July the news paper article stated that a Marine Corps source stated that a average of six abuse cases are investigated each year.  The source also stated that every effort is made to weed out these abusive Drill Instructors, as these Kids are at their mercy and are trained t view these men as gods, and are powerless when faced with this type of behavior.

     Now here is where I have my gripe, I visit several web sites that are Marine Corps related.  Every time something like this surfaces, there are always a few individuals who rush in and scream WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO MY CORPS?  the mothers of America are ruining the Corps by interfering with the Marine Corps Boot Camp.  back in my day we——. 

     Crap back in my day 50+ years ago you could not beat the hell out of a recruit then without discipline.  Any action that places a young man at risk for injury is not allowed.  A damaged recruit is of no use to anyone.     Sure we were pushed to the limit and then past it but we were not hurt.  

     The other thing I often see is, keep these damn civilians out of the Marine Corps workings.  These Sgt.s were tried by a Marine Corps Court Marshal convened and juried by Marine Corps Officers who know Marine Corps Law.  There is no civilian interface involved.

     I was just over on one of my favorite sites tonight and read a article by a man who just attended his grandsons graduation from boot camp in San Diego and he was decrying how easy his grandson had it in boot camp and whether they were turning out Marines as good as in his day fifty years ago.  He needs to sit down with his grandson and learn what he has absorbed in his thirteen weeks of training.  It was a eye opener for me I too felt that boot camp was softer than in MY DAY.  A term the old guys like to use.  My grandson learned more in his thirteen weeks than I ever did.  their first-aid training is out standing and they ran farther than we did and Lord we did not even have any hand-to-hand teaching at all they had forty hours of it.

     No it is right that we give these kids to protection they need, we are not making boot camp soft by weeding out abusers.  In every organization there are abusers, be it Police, or any area of authority there are some bad apples even in marriage.  Hell look it it we are afraid to let our children walk down the street any more.  So when we send our young people off to train to defend our country we need to know that we are trusting them ot  people of high quality and trust.  Do not get me wrong I hold the Marine Corps Drill Instructor in high regard.  Hell a couple I know had a hand in making me the man I am today.  Their job is hard and demanding and they often are hated but the respect that a Marine has for his Instructor later in life if legendary.

OK time to get of the soap box for now.

ramblingbob

 

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135 Responses to “Marine Corps Drill Instructors Abuse”

  1. jdowling14 Says:

    Ohhhh Rahhhhh,

    If they wanted to join the girl scouts or the Army then they
    should have….as it is stated and anyone Marine will tell you
    it is for “The Few The Proud” not the he broke my tooth brush
    and he hit me little girls of the world. My 5yr old daughter can
    withstand more punishment. I served in the Corp.; my brother
    in-law, his brother….all honorably discharged E-5’s and a Captain. Who’s lettting these twit’s put foot on a Marine Corp
    base…We all know they need to fill MOS’s to deploy to Iraq but
    let us not jepordize our good name and country by accepting anyone’s little boy or girl. None of the recruits was seriously injured as was stated and if so we take care of our own.
    I assure you what the Iraq’s have to offer is 10x worse than being hit with a tent pole…send these wimps and they tell everything and jepordize the live of hundred’s of Marine’s because they couldn’t take a little pain. Recruiter’s do your job’s…..SEMPER FI DUE OR DIE.

    • Clayton Says:

      God damn right. mothers of america are destroying the marine core…don’t touch my baby, dont run in hot weather, dont swear at my baby…fuck off!!! its the marines, not daycare!! the propose is to make strong soldiers not pussys!!!!!!!

      • jody Says:

        Hey Ass, have you every been in the Marnie corp? My husband was beat up really bad 35 yr ago when he was only 17 and I know this shit happens. He has lose his hearing in one ear and got a broken nose and now has PTSD. HE DIDN’T DESERVE TO HAVE THIS HAPPEN JUST BECAUSE HE WAS FROM THE NORTH and his DI’S were from the south!When he signed up to go in he signed a paper saying that he will support and defend the constitution of the US against all enemies,foreign and domestic;that i will bear true faith and allegiance to the same ;and i will obey the orders of the president of the US ………etc so help me God.
        He didn’t ask to get his ass kicked! He didn’t want to go down so he just kept getting back up and they would hit him again.I get so MAD when people say it doesn’t happen. We are just now after all these years getting some where with getting the truth out!All he was a young man wanting to serve his country. I wouldn’t want my grandson to go into the Marines and he is not a Pussy either!!!!!

    • johnny Says:

      jdowling14 you don’t need to beat people with tent poles and flash lights to make them tough. if i was in the military and my drill instructer hit me with a tent pole i’d shuv that tent pole so far up his ass it’d come out his mouth, and if he was tougher than me oh well i’d damn sure try i’d at least spit my blood in his face and tell him to give me more.

      • achristensen Says:

        It’s about discipline, respect for ranks above you, and instant obedience to orders. If somebody got hit, it makes a lasting impression not to do whatever they did again because in combat that might be a bullet instead of a tent pole. The Marine Corps is not for the weak of mind, body, or soul. Not everyone can make the cut and that’s how it should be.

    • dan egan Says:

      as an ex marine i see marine mothers as a direct connection to dead marines

      • brian Says:

        My brother is one of the few and the proud. He was trained and hazed and dealt with boot camp to come out a better person and a soldier. The marines are the best of the best. These drill instructors have built a Marine.. but what happens after boot camp? He is now in california and set to deploy soon. Even though he is no longer a private, no longer in boot camp, he still gets hazed by these power driven pricks called sergents. There is a line between doing your job to toughen a solider up and simply pouring bleach on a marine while you watch him clean the showers in his underwear and gas mask. My mother has NOTHING to do with his reactions to the abuse. We had a strict bring up and we always taught to suck it up and deal with it. He is a solider. So why are there no options to relieve him of this? He signed up to serve his country. He has proven himself already. He did not sign up for him and his squad to be abused everyday to the point where he is only apart of the marines because he signed a contract.

      • Tara Brown Says:

        my name is tara and i am a female Marine, i hate mothers of america. we are now getting new Marines with snotty attitudes and cry cause they cant get their way, to brian im sorry about your brother. what happened to him is not what the corps is about and in my unit we would never tolorate such behavior but nosy people just need to take their buisness elsewhere because we can handle our own. things do happen to everyone in and out of the military. maybe they should spend more time cleaning up the life closer to home rather than worry about their adult child thousands of miles away. it was their choice to be here.

    • KASU Says:

      You sir are a laughable caricature of the dim-witted, loud-mouthed, limp-dicked, knuckleheads that think your ability to behave like a bunch of drunken frat boys hazing freshman pledges makes for a strong military or is in any way testimony to your effectiveness as a soldier.

    • Chin Says:

      Ooh Rah! This phrase is Chinese for “flaccid penis”.

      I have never understood why the US Marines are always yelling this.

      Although, when I read all of the blustering wannabe tough guys posting here, I am beginning to understand it.

  2. jdowling14 Says:

    Ohhhh Rahhhhh,

    If they wanted to join the girl scouts or the Army then they
    should have….as it is stated and anyone Marine will tell you
    it is for “The Few The Proud” not the he broke my tooth brush
    and he hit me little girls of the world. My 5yr old daughter can
    withstand more punishment. I served in the Corp.; my brother
    in-law, his brother….all honorably discharged E-5’s and a Captain. Who’s lettting these twit’s put foot on a Marine Corp
    base…We all know they need to fill MOS’s to deploy to Iraq but
    let us not jepordize our good name and country by accepting anyone’s little boy or girl. None of the recruits was seriously injured as was stated and if so we take care of our own.
    I assure you what the Iraq’s have to offer is 10x worse than being hit with a tent pole…send these wimps and they tell everything and jepordize the live of hundred’s of Marine’s because they couldn’t take a little pain. Recruiter’s do your job’s…..SEMPER FI DO OR DIE.

    • jody Says:

      tHEY DON’T HAVE TO BE BEAT UP FROM THESE OWN DI !!!!!!

    • Melr1120 Says:

      WELL MY HUSBAND WAS A PROUD MARINE…EVEN AFTER THE DAY HIS DRILL SEARGENT KICKED HIM IN THE MOUTH KNOCKING ALL OF HIS FRONT TEETH OUT AND STOMPED ON HIS HEAD AND WAS TOLD TO PICK UP HIS TEETH AND GET ON LINE…..THEN WAS THROWN INTO SOLITARY AND LEFT WITH HIS NERVES HANGING OUT OF HIS MOUTH…..EVEN AFTER HE SPENT 2 WEEKS LOCKED IN A TOWER ON THE BASE WHILE THE HIGHER OFFICIALS FIGURED OUT A WAY TO COVER IT UP…..EVEN AFTER THAT HE TRIED AND WAS READY FOR SPECIAL FORCES….AND STILL HE WAS A PROUD MARINE!!!! BUT JUST LAST YEAR 15 YEARS AFTER HIS SERVICE….HE FOUND OUT THAT ALL THIS TIME HE HAS HAD A BROKEN NECK AND IT WAS COVERD UP BY THE SAME PEOPLE WHO WERE SUPPOSED TO BE HIS BROTHERS….. THAT IS ABUSE!!!!!! NOT TRAINING….BS…IF YOU THINK FOR ONE MIN THIS IS THE ONLY INCIDENT THAT HAS BEEN COVERED UP!!!!! HE HAS NO JUSTICE FOR WHAT WAS DONE…NOTHING! THE DRILL SERGEANT WAS NEVER REPRIMANDED AND NOTHING HAPPENED TO HIM BUT NOW MY HUSBAND A TRUE MAN,HAS IS RESTRICTED TO HARDLY DOING ANYTHING PHYSICAL….WHO PAYS FOR THAT????? TRAIN THE MARINES…..BE TOUGH ON THEM THAT’S WHAT YOU DO BUT BE DAMNED IF YOU ABUSE SOMEONE IN THE NAME OF THE MARINES…..

    • Jake Says:

      I’d like to be a proud Marine too. I’d like to be stupid enough to join a top heavy organization without a real mission in the modern age of warfare. (Don’t believe this? the official mission statement of the Marines is: “shall, at any time, be liable to do duty in the forts and garrisons of the United States, on the seacoast, or any other duty on shore, as the President, at his discretion, shall direct.” How much “fort defending” and beach assaulting do you tough guys think that we’ll be doing anytime soon?) The Marine is to the armed forces what the cavalry horse is to the army.

      I’d like to be proud that I know how to do nothing other than serve as cannon fodder for snipers. I’d like to be proud of the women and children I’ve killed. I’d like to be proud of being stupid enough to take more crap than most people could stomach from a bunch of pea brained DI’s. I’d like to be proud of the fact that I couldn’t pick half of the places we’re now fighting off a map if the labels were removed. I’d like to be proud that the phrase “critical thinking” has been expunged from my sputtering brain. I’d like to be proud to be part of the “meals on wheels” part of the armed forces. No one can “occupy” (read this as get shot at and wander around trying not to look scared and sh!t your collective pants) a country better than a Marine. I’d like to be proud that I have no idea why I am being sent to wherever I going. Yup, I’d like to be a big gun with a small brain and an even smaller dick…Hoo Raa!

      • Proud Marine Says:

        Jake – I’m glad you have the freedom of expression. However, you have made some very poor assumptions about the United States Marine Corps (USMC). You stated: “I’d like to be stupid enough to join a top heavy organization without a real mission in the modern age of warfare.” I will examine the first sentence after your “proud Marine” statement. The USMC is the least top heavy military service in the DoD – We are capped at 10 percent officer strength and we have the least number of General Officers. You also stated we do not have a real mission. The USMC serves as an expeditionary force-in-readiness. As outlined in 10 U.S.C. § 5063 and as originally introduced under the National Security Act of 1947, established by CONGRESS, it has three primary areas of responsibility: (1) The seizure or defense of advanced naval bases and other land operations to support naval campaigns; (2) The development of tactics, technique, and equipment used by amphibious landing forces in coordination with the Army and Air Force; (3) and Such other duties as the President may direct. The National Security Act also established the USMC as a separate and distinct service. The USMC has proudly provided humanitarian assistance (or as you call it – meals on wheels) more than any other service across the entire globe by order of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (See number 3 above). And finally the USMC actually wrote the “Modern” doctrine on War fighting in 1989, and revised in 1997, which all other services, including foreign militaries, use Marine Corps Doctrine Publication 1 (MCDP-1; http://www.clausewitz.com/readings/mcdp1.pdf ) as their primary Warfighting bible.
        Additionally, while I was “wondering around” the streets of Fallujah, Iraq I knew exactly what I was there for and I don’t recall ever dropping a duce in my pants.

  3. ramblingbob Says:

    You know I also served in the Marines, and my mothers youngest brother was awarded a Purple Heart on Iwo Jima, and I am proud of my service. But Sgt. Glass was tried on only 10 counts, reduced down from 225, Do you really think that out of all the hundreds of DI”s, that there are not a few abusers of the trust given to them. The Marine Corps Information Office said that there are an adverage of five abuse cases a year in the Corps. We still have the hardest and most effective training program in the world and produce the finest fighting men in the world ,but we do not have to resort to abuse to develop them. I get so tired of all you people who want to bury your head in the sand in the name of Corps pride, and defend a few bad apples. A number of Marines are discharged dishonarably each year, why can not a few of the bum’s be a DI. the term DI does not confer a God like personality. When we intrust a young man to them we have a right to expect them to follow the rules laid out for them to train these kids. I have a recently graduated from boot camp grandson who did not have to be beat with a heavy flashlight to beome a well trained and ezlempary Marine, I personally feel he is bwtter trained than I was fifty years ago, oh yes My DI’s were tough but not abusieve. I do not appoligise for my stance.

  4. scott Says:

    what kind of wimps are the training in boot camp these days.sgt glass should be given a medal for what he done.what are they going to do when they get in combat someday.when that ramp comes down on the landing craft on some hostile beach somewhere all you have is your training to keep you alive .I was in combat and ithanked God i had drill instructors who prepared me to the best of their ability.I wonder who they will cry to when their facing the busines end of some anti americans ak47 or chraging up some hill in the face of a machne gun nest.

    • Boshemia Says:

      It never seems to matter what the subject… when it comes to the term abuse, people want to defend their own to the death. So much more so the Marines.

      What you went through in boot camp is not what these people are deeming babies and sissies went through. I can see that you are damn proud of being a Marine and rightly so… no doubt that you are tough as nails…

      But honey, I am a lifetime abuse survivor and proud of it. But that doesn’t mean that I think everybody should experience just so they can toughen up the hard way like I did. So they could be the one defending other victims… so they can face rape investigations with children. HELL NO!

      Keeping our soldiers alive is top priority, but fucking up their brains for the rest of their lives isn’t helping anybody.

      BTW PTSD is not something that only sissies get. It is not a failure or a weakness. It is training. Our bodies have been trained to react to any perceived threats by pumping adrenaline into our blood stream. After so long, it becomes second nature. You go into fight or flight when certain triggers are met. You form neural pathways that are active whether you want them to be or not.

      Pavlov’s dogs drooled when the bell rang, abuse survivors either duck and cover or fight like hell when they sense danger. For THE REST OF OUR LIVES.

      What that does to a marriage. A normal life. To your HEAD.

      All non essential life functions are shut down and you become a survival machine. Things like digestion, pregnancy, clear thinking processes… and the longer you stay that way the more functions shut down. All from a little bit of harmless abuse.

      Great in combat… but hard as hell to explain to the cashier at the grocery store and your kids school.

      Then… after 22 years… they figure out it was PTSD all along. Only they didn’t find it until my body was already in final shut down. Full adrenal exhaustion. I am recovering now… after 22 years of puking and constant fatigue I am off of all meds and living a normal life for the first time ever.

      I did get tough as nails through my experiences but there are also consequences. I still have to live with an overactive adrenal system for the rest of my life.

      And we don’t get medals either…

      You can’t excuse abuse because the person who did it is a fellow Marine. But I don’t fault you for being in denial. The average childhood survivor of abuse tells seven people before one believes them. So can you be an adult Marine trying to tell???? I’ll bet you would struggle to find 1 in 70 Marines who would believe you.

      But I’d like to challenge one Marine to live my life and still tell me that abuse only hurts sissies and girl scouts… to just survive one rape… and then tell me how PTSD only hurts babies.

    • MRS.B Says:

      i agree, i do not see very many young Marines that are fully prepared to go head to head with someone. but there are other ways to prepare them than beating them. i was never hit in boot camp and i never seen anyone get hit. but i was abused my entire life before then and honestly boot camp was a walk in the park because of it. but that life style is not for everyone and beating the wrong person can have sevistating consequences.

  5. ramblingbob Says:

    This will be my last entery on this topic. FYI, it was not the little girl scouts, wimpy sissy recruit’s or the mommas of America who caused Sgt. Glass’s down fall. Well into the second month of this platoon’s training, the DI of a sister platoon observed heavy brusing on the face of one of Glass’s recruits. Getting the recruit into his offices as a DI he questioned him. Reconising abusive behavior, he made a report. Upon investigating it was determned that 225 counts of mistreatment had occoured. Being of like natures they were consolidated into 10 counts. Sgt Glass was tried in a military court marshal by 3 senior officers and 3 senior NCO’s. The abuse occoured in Feb. of 2007 and trial took place in these last few months. The former recruits who were required to testify, were reluctant to do so but under oath, were required to do so. The only Marine here who deserves a medal is the one who reconised a problem and took action to protect young Marines. The main thrust of the proscution was in not following orders on how to treat recruits. Beating a young man, who has to stand there and take it ,with a flashlight does nothing to prepare him to face an AK47. And if your little girl can stand the punishment of be beaten with a 4cell flashlight, she is a better Marine that I was when they put me in a trench at Yucca Flats and put a bomb off over my head.

  6. steve Says:

    Ramblingbob have you personally spoke with Sgt. Glass. My son has. Maybe you should gather more info before you so willingly condemn a man who has put his life on the line for your right to do so.

  7. ramblingbob Says:

    marinecorpstimes.com/news…artial 071109/

  8. pbsweeney Says:

    Wow, lots of rage. It’s this kind of thinking that results in an Abu Graib. You have gotten this issue so right. My dad was a marine in Korea, and I have friends who were marines in Vietnam. Not every drill instructor sits at the right hand of God.

    • A MARINE Says:

      Sorry, But when you talk about MARINES!!! They are and will ALWAYS BE MARINES!!!! As for Abu Graib the American Public has No right intering.

      • ramblingbob Says:

        I to am a MARINE, (abet 52 years ago)! So was my Grand Uncle who fought in WWl and died and is buried in France. So was my Uncle who was wounded on Iwo Jima, WWll, (purple heart). Three second cousins in Korea, two at Chosin one died, the other escorted and fought along side the truck carrying his body, (later was discharged with three frost bitten toes, partial disability). My peace time service in mid-fiftys (Atomic Bomb, particapant, 1957). Nephews in Viet Nam, Nephew in Desert Storm. Grandson did Afghanistan, Killed on base Camp LeJuine, Jan 5th. this year. Have a great Nephew ready for deployment at any time. That is just the Marines, had Army, and Navy involved also. Plus can count 4 great Grandfathers in Civil War for the Union, no reord of the Confederats as not much family history on that side. I am 72 years old and hobbil out to put up the American and Marine Corps Flags everyday it does not rain. I know about The Marien Corps Brotherhood as well as any man. And when something is wrong I’ll stand and say my peice under the freedom we all served for!!

  9. ramblingbob Says:

    Yes there is a lot of rage incluntered over this issue. I go to several Marine related web sites and the blind support for these DI’s is unbelivable. With out any investigation they believe these DI’s all walk on water. I have been called some interesting names over this issue and my stance. But like I say we are dealing with human nature here just like the cop’s who use their badge to try to get away with rape, So cane there be rough Marines. I love my Corps and am proud to have served but am not blind either.

  10. Wayne Says:

    I like to think of Marine Corps training as demanding training,not abusive training. Being able to do things,one never thought possible is good. Under the right leadership,effective training can produce good results. One former Marine friend of mine was a Ballet dancer prior to joining the Marines. He was really abused and made fun of. But his physical agility far surpassed that of the average Marine’s, What was really funny was when the CO had recruits try Ballet exercises. None of them could “hack it”! To be a Ballet dancer,one’s co-ordination has to be A-1 and thensome. It’s not an activity for a wimp!!! My friend eventually made it to OCS and was discharged as a Captain!!!

  11. Rhonda Says:

    I first want to say I enjoyed your artical, and it was very informative. My son graduated in Jan. 08 from boot camp in San diego. He was stationed at 29 Palms in Jun. my son was very proud and happy after graduating. He left home as an 18 year old boy and returned a respectful an honorable man. when he came back from mos school he was very distant and isolated himself family and friends. He was not the same man as when he had left. After being in 29 Palms for 5 wks, He was found in the dessert wandering around confused and disoriented. They took him to the emergency room and treated him for dhyration and “hunger”. He was then taken by ambulance to San Diego Navel hospital. His srg. major informed me he was diagnosed with psychosis nos. That is all I know and he has been there for almost 3 wks. They said my son won’t sign the hippa release to give me info, and they said my son does not want to talk to me or anyone. I know something happened to my son and I need advice. I don’t know what to do . any advice you have would be greatly appreciated.

  12. Brian Says:

    Let me just say that I am appalled at the lack of support for these men. As a former Marine and graduate from Paris Island the real boot camp, (I’m sure I’m going to get some heat for that) I have had my fair share of instruction from my drill instructors. Yes there is a difference between abuse and discipline.

    I joined the corps rather late in life for a recruit. I was 26 at the time and from what I observed many of these recruits were fresh out of high school and had barely spent any time away from home. For the most part they were spoiled, undisciplined and pampered children.

    The Marine Corps motto has always been “the more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in combat.” In order to prepare these recruits for battle they need to first be taught some discipline and if it takes some physical instruction to accomplish that then so be it. I would much rather have my drill instructor beat it into me than some terrorist or capture.

    I have seen first hand how the enemy trains its soldiers and if you think getting smacked with a flashlight is excessive and being beaten and dug until you threw up. Try being beaten bloody only to be revived and beaten again. And that’s what they do to the disciplined ones.

    How about rape and sodomy as well as dismemberment and disfigurement for refusing to acknowledge a direct order. This is what we are facing on the battle field. To our enemies it honorable to die. Did you forget about the Kamikaze pilots and suicide bombers.

    These were not psychotic individuals with no respect for life. These were trained weapons and this is what we are facing every time we put on a uniform and step onto the battlefield.

    Come on people wake up and face reality. War is hell and the only way to fight the devil is with devil dogs. Not chihuahuas.

  13. ramblingbob Says:

    I just once again want to point out that the reason this case came to light was a report from another Drill Instructor, no a recruit. The Drill Instructor from another platoon thought there was reason for a report. The case was tried by The drill instructor’s peers, Offficers and NCO’s not civillians. Mothers or other recruits were not involved in causing this case to come too light, and all reports were revealed by The Marine Corps Public Relations Office. So I see no reason to jump on a high horse of indignation here!!!

  14. ramblingbob Says:

    Oh yeah, all Drill instructors are trained at the same school, so you PI snobs are not something special!!

  15. jt Says:

    Let’s use a bit of sense here. RamblingBob is spot-on. This is a VOLUNTEER military. Abuse the recruits, and all you have is damaged goods, or some kid who washed out when he didn’t need to, when he shouldn’t have, if the DI didn’t hold his ego higher than his duty.

    What would happen to you if you disobeyed direct orders or general orders and caused the loss of a recruit or other government property? If they aren’t making producing a capable finished soldier their highest priority, they’re failing themselves, those recruits and their nation.

  16. jt Says:

    P.S.

    Steve, you wrote: steve Says:
    January 13, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    Ramblingbob have you personally spoke with Sgt. Glass. My son has. Maybe you should gather more info before you so willingly condemn a man who has put his life on the line for your right to do so.

    Most of us here have served in the military, and some of us actually have put our lives on the line, not just served here in the States, so stow that flag-waving nonsense, or save it for somebody who hasn’t himself earned the right to criticize.

    • BB Says:

      I think you’re out of line here, JT. Not everyone was in the Corps during a conflict and not everyone who was in the Corps during a conflict has fought. Secure that badmouthing of a fellow Marine. And yes, I’m a Beirut vet.

  17. ramblingbob Says:

    This is ramblingbob, My time in the service fell between Korea and Viet Nam, I did not have the privilage, if you want to call it that, of serving in a armed conflict. But I was a volenter asnd was trained to fight and was on call all the time if needed. I volentered for every thing that came along. In July of 1957 I was hunkered in a seven foot trench in Yucca Flats, Nev. where Uncle Sam set of the largest areial Burst Atomic device ever detonated in the United States. I WAS A MARINE at all times and still proudly fly the Corps flag on my front pourch every day. I stand by all my words printed on this blog through out.

  18. GySgt Dan Canipe Says:

    Give me a stinkin break. I went to boot camp Apr-Jun 1981. They hit us, cussed us, kicked us, abused us and it was all very funny to me! It’s what I expected and mostly deserved. I had an M-16 front sight slammed into my face (which bled terribly) and when I was asked if i wanted to go to sick bay I emphatically replied “hell no sir”. Was further punished for “cussing” at the DI. I was a good Marine and these guys made me one. If you want to be a crybaby, don’t let your son or grandson join the Marine Corps. The Marines are, have been, and should be treated like men (not your high school sweetheart). When you FU, you pay! The Marine DI who alleged misconduct on his contemporary should have handled this situation much more like a professional Marine. He should have gone to him and told him to tone it down and control himself. Wouldn’t you want your co-worker to do that for you if you f’d up after having a bad day and made a slight mistake. None of these young men were really hurt! Hell we used to have tent pole fights! With the very rare exception of “Ribbon Creek”, Marine recruits have been treated as humans and someone you want to train to be on your side. Ease off and if you don’t want your kids or whatever to join the Marine Corps, DON’T LET THEM. We don’t want them anyway!

    Semper Fi
    GySgt Dan Canipe
    canipeds@hotmail.com

    • MullersLaneFarm Says:

      THANK YOU GySgt Canipe!

      My son is a newly minted US Marine, graduating today (14 Aug 09) at MCRD-SD as a Ptn Honor Man

      He said his feelings of boot camp before the Crucible were ‘bored, tired & hungry’ After the Crucible, he was ‘still bored but more disappointed and ANGRY’ about the training he didn’t receive and the number of men who graduated with him that did not deserve the right to wear the EGA.

      As a Mom of a Marine, I’m also angry that the recruit training has softened so much that they are turning out sub-standard Marines. I’m rightfully worried that these men may be next to my son in a combat situation and not have the self-discipline to handle the task at hand.

      Do I believe that real abuse can and has taken place? Yes. Do I believe that it is common place or that hard discipline is the same as abuse? Hell No!

      Let the DIs do their job turning out real Devil Dogs.

      My son did not join the US Marine Corps to be trained like he was in the Army. You don’t like the discipline techniques of the Marine DIs then send your loved one to the Army and stay out of my son’s Corps.

      • ramblingbob Says:

        OK I had determended to not reply further on this topic, but, let me clear the air once again. I am a Marine! and I went through in 1956, right after the Parris Island incedent. My training was tough, but not brutal. Do I think abuse exist Yes, should it be tolerated no!. Enough said, My grandson is a Marine Afghanistan Vet. Am I proud Yes. Do I think the Marine Corps is up to snuff? I think that it has some what lowered its recruitment standards today. There are now people who are not up to former standards within the ranks, there are a some who are not qualified, and some who have a higher loyalty to their former gangs than to the Corps. This is really true in the army. Whats to be done, That is up to the Cmmandant. Yes keep the Mothers of America and the UCLA out of boot camp, keep tranning tough and for Gods sake make the Commadants of the recrutment depots answerable for the conduct of their DI’s. A sadist has no business tranning our youth to be Marines. And as for your son ,thank you for rasing a Marine and thank him for his service, Semper Fi!

  19. ramblingbob Says:

    I have grown weary of responding to this chapter. So this will be my last response. Everyone is entitlrd to his own opinion! But the blind alegance to the Corps that I have encountered on this subject concerns me. It remindes me of the Blue Code you find in the police agenceys where good cops will not rat on a bad one. I was a Marine and I served with a very few who made me ashamed to have to call them a brother Marine. Every year according to the Marine Corps information Office there are a adverage of five investigations into Marine Corps Drill Instructor abuse. That is a extremely small number out of the many others doing a good job. Dicpline is one thing abuse is abuse, end of subject.

  20. ST Says:

    Funny thing, i was surfing the web this morning and inadvertantly stumbled upon articles referring to former sgt glass. I have so much to say on the topic after reading so many replies. He was my DI and i was part of the platoon he was CONVICTED of abusing. All Marines feel like their training was harder than the last and vice versa, but i was actually there and can guarantee that some of the things that Glass did were beyond acceptable.

    Brian states above:->>>”I would much rather have my drill instructor beat it into me than some terrorist or capture. I have seen first hand how the enemy trains its soldiers and if you think getting smacked with a flashlight is excessive and being beaten and dug until you threw up. Try being beaten bloody only to be revived and beaten again. And that’s what they do to the disciplined ones.” and it goes on…

    But we are not in terrorist training camp. We are volunteer civilians who live in the United States, who want to become Marines, not Army or some other branch. The point is that wether or not you think current training standards are watered down and that current and recently enlisted Marines are pussys is completely erroneous. No amount of physical or physcological abuse is going to make someone better as a basic trained Marine. Only real training (such as rifle ranges, kill houses, humps, night ops, anti-terrorism training, etc.) and repitition of that training will make someone better at their job.

    You cannot compare the current training standards of USMC recruits to those of terrorist organizations. We volunteer to leave our spoiled lives as Americans to have our asses kicked, within reason, to become Marines. We are not forced to join terrorist organizations becasue of economic reasons, lack of opportunity, or religously based hatred of others.

    Just because we join the military does not mean that we should have to give away our civil liberties. The Marine Corps and all other branches of the Uniformed Services comply to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The UCMJ purports to give us rights, and violations of those rights such as abuse need to be reported and punished. The idea that alleged criminal acts againts others should be handled in house violates the purpose of the UCMJ and Justice itself. We might as well get rid of the UCMJ and settle all disputes with fists. Stupid.

    Degredation of recruits is widespread, sure. We all hate it and love it. But go get thrashed by a superior in the vomit of others and tell me how that just made you a better Marine.

    Everyone has their personal oppinions of how a DI should condunct themselves. Fact is DI’s take an oath, the DI Creed to educate and ensure the safety of their recruits. Even they know when they cross the line.

    I have so much more to say. Glass commited crimes, although he may have faced severe penalties. Glass was made an example of. This case was not just any other recruit abuse case, it was made widely public and the Marine Corps had to show they are not weak on punishment and that they can be held responsible for the safety of our countries young men.

    Post comments, i would like to discuss this further…

  21. ST Says:

    With All Due Respect,
    GySgt Canipe above, “The Marine DI who alleged misconduct on his contemporary should have handled this situation much more like a professional Marine. He should have gone to him and told him to tone it down and control himself. Wouldn’t you want your co-worker to do that for you if you f’d up after having a bad day and made a slight mistake. None of these young men were really hurt!”.

    There is nothing professional about not reporting crime. This was not one bad day, and the abuses were not slight mistakes. And yes, there were some recruits with broken bones.

  22. ramblingbob Says:

    ST, thank you so much for responding to this free for all. I am so glad that someone from the platoon saw fit to respond and tell their side of it. Like I have said many times in the past my grandson, graduated about 10 months after this incident. I am glad the Corps took measures to stop this kind of crap. My grandson now a Lcpl., recieved more and better training in his 13 weeks than I did, He leaves for Afghanistan in a very few days. In a later chapter I wrote of my visit with him at Twenty-Nine Palms and how impressed we were with his comand and his prepardeness. I am proud to have been in the same brotherhood as you and he are. Semper Fi.

  23. GySgt Dan Canipe Says:

    ST, you’re a liar and a “wanna be”. There’s nothing worse than claiming that you served in the Corps and we all know you damned well didn’t!! I smell you little bastards from a mile away. Leave my Marine Corps alone. I spent 20 years in the Marine Corps and I can just tell that you’re full of shit!!!! A “crime”, please. I spent 20 years of my life to make sure that my Marines were well trained and disciplined! I receive emails from my troops on a regular basis thanking me for the fine training and mentorship I provided them. The “mothers” of America and idiots like you try to drag down one of the precious things this country has. It won’t happen, so you might as well give up. My Marine Corps is the way it is and stop “BAD MOUTHING” it.

  24. ST Says:

    Thanks for the comment RB.

  25. sam Says:

    fuck all yall who say it is right to stop abuse. marines kill, thats what we do. my drill instructor punched me in the mouth about twice a day and told me to give up or it would continue. he made me a leader. one recruit died in training. he was weak. if he had a condition he shouldn’t of signed up. i sprained my ankle, got shin splints and bled daily. if you want to put up a fight against it, fight me. try it. youll see u and the rest of mothers of america are fucking pussies who dont have the strength to kill and not let it get to you. ive seen six men die in only 6 months. i have a purple heart, yet basic training/soi is the hardest thing ive had to do to be prepared for this. so be a marine, or join the fucking air force and train in air conditioning.

    • ramblingbob Says:

      Well Sam personaly, I think you are just a bag of asshole wind, I doubt that you are even a Marine. I have served with and known and had my ass kicked by Marines many times. And none of them would have made a comment like yours. So shit head keep off my blog. PS at 70 I can still outshoot a whole bunch of asshole wind bags like you. A stroke has taken my physical dextitery and strength but the trigger hand and finger can give you one hell of a thirt finger salute!!!

      • USMCmark89 Says:

        This is about the funniest argument i have heard in a while, well not the actuall case that was just, well im not putting my imput, but what to expect, you get a whole lot of Marines to talk about one of the biggest issues out there.. I just wanted to say OohRah! semper kill.. And this was a good convo bewteen yall

  26. jerry sezar Says:

    Hi Bob, stumbled on your website….kool. Went to MCRD SD in ’64. Nice Di picked us up at the airport……turned into an asshole on the return trip…..ok with me….I joind to get away from a bad situation…..DI was playing his game with a recruit in front of me and hit him to get him to respond….(my father was a hotrodder/biker/tough….little brother had polio, dad taught me how to fight when somebody picked on Jim or any other person)……..so, I hit the DI. Not good! I paid for that buy having to clean a bathroom (Head) with a toothbrush for many hours the rest of the day and until late at night. Bootcamp went well with constant reminders of that first night as a few DI’s would wisper shit in my ears about getting even until ITR. After our arrival that day I failed a rifle inspection and the DI made me clean it while my squad did PT. After a long time the DI finally said my rifle was clean and sent us to the shower. I spent the next two weeks not being able to see in the ITR infirmary pretty banged up with corneal abraisions to both eyes…..finished bootcamp, went to tank repairman school and my rep followed as “lifer’s” didn’t like marine’s that questioned. Did a short 30 day stint in dark solitary and broke rocks for being four days awol at Pendelton and I still remember the screams from prisoners being attacked by guards or other prisoners usually “set-up” by guards. Went to Nam in August ’67 and was warned that my rep followd me. I quickly aquired a Sturm Ruger 44 mag for personal protection. As most guys in 3rd tanks liked staying within the perimiter, digging trenches and making bunkers, I felt safer outside the perimiter. Did a lot of roving night patrols (106) and ambushes (98), and did a lot of CAP patrols during the day to help kids and women. I don’t know what happened on that night of the 98th ambush….all I remember is Sargent Elders saying something to me from behind….I woke up at Charlie Med and a doctor told me I we got overrun. I still had my 44 on my side and still have it today, I just wonder if “WE” got over run or did “I” get overrun by my own. I am proud that I was a Marine once and I am proud that there are a FEW that are tough enough to “Stand-up” to abuse.

  27. HollywoodEvan Says:

    Like Gunny Smith told us in DI School in 1968 You are not much of a man if you beat a recruit while he’s standing at attention, and while you’re doing it you know damn well that he can’t and won’t fight back. I agree that the hero here is the other Plt DI who recognized the problem.

  28. HollywoodEvan Says:

    I would however say this in regards to one problem several of us had in the first few weeks of training back then and that is that if a recruit attacks you or says fuck you, you got to fight him back with all you got and you better win or you have lost the rest of the platoon. So it does work that way, but not latent abuse while they are not able to fight back.

    • ramblingbob Says:

      Thank Goodness, finally A Marine and A former DI, has the gut to take the unpopular position of agreeing with me. You have no idea of the verbal abuse I have recieved for this post. Thanks for your comments. Yeah recruit on recruit is not the same thing, as long as they are reasonably matched.

  29. GySgt Dan Canipe Says:

    Wow this issue seems like it’s been beat like a dead horse (with a tent pole, of course!). Maybe he used the pole because the recruit was slightly out of reach. And the shitcan dive…….hell he was just training that dink to learn how to dive into a fighting hole when the mortars starting flying!

    There’s always two sides to every story. I’d like to have been a “fly on the wall” when all of this “abuse” supposedly occurred!

  30. Marinewife1107 Says:

    This topic makes me upset. My husband is a combat instructor and when those marines come from boot camp and step foot and get ready to train for battle, (because after MCT or ITB and MOS they can be in a war zone in a couple months) its not time to worry about anything else but the situation….if the point is getting across then that should be it….

    I now hear that when the students at boot camp are “good” they get to go to the PX and commissary…..what the heck is that??

    I do believe in manners and order but if someone wants to become a marine then they should be ready to become one….because when you step foot into the fleet its not rainbows and sunshine…and if your shop chief tells you to do something with a few F bombs in there….mommy isnt around to say anything
    The same goes for a marine wife…..if your husband is joining HE WILL GO TO WAR!!

  31. MullersLaneFarm Says:

    Thank your husband for his service, Marinewife … and thank YOU for YOUR service and dedication to your husband.

    My son is currently SOI:ITB and his biggest gripe & frustration is about 30% of the Marines in his company there think this is a game. They lolly-gag around, falls asleep in class ….

    It would have been nice if these folks could have been weeded out in recruit training instead of putting other marines in danger in a combat zone

    • marinewife1107 Says:

      well then MullerLaneFarm…..your son is one of the good ones and will be a great marine bcuz of that…and he knows that combat training is serious. And espeically in ITB.

      and because of the lolly gaging about 100+ instructors who teach at camp devil dog and Gieger have a tougher job…..like students who fall asleep in class durning a presentation about something they are going to be working with after the hour presentation….THEN have no idea how to do it!

      do you know that some students dont even know how to hydrate during humps (hikes)?
      and that training has to stop bcuz some “kid” didnt drink enough water and he passes out? shouldnt that kind of stuff be second nature? but no. the Doc has to come and assist the situation……maybe one day boot camp will go back to “noraml”……
      and bcuz of Stuff like that your son misses out.

      have a great Day
      Semper FI

  32. novTEN1775 Says:

    wow. this article is hilarious. how can u be a marine and have graduated from boot camp and say that physical punishment is not necessary. my father and brother both joined and went to boot camp before me, so i was ready for a hardcore 13 weeks. wasn’t anything that i thought. we had sh*tbags laughing and joking around 24/7 and we as a plt paid for it. we had weak and fat bodies that didn’t learn and could barely make it back from humps. it annoys me when u join something to be the best and u see a bunch of weak pussies who joined just to say theyre part of the marine corps. DI’s are there to make you stronger. to break you down, then build you up. you get what you put in. those kids prolly deserved what they got. we had a kid in our plt get pushed over a foot locker for talking back to a DI. he was a pussy and immediately told the senior. unfortunately that DI got separated from our plt cuz that lil pussy couldn’t handle a push.(just found that recruit got njp’d and is once again private). i smiled during square away time and spent that entire night scuzzing the deck in the push up position. i deserved it. didn’t smile again. DI’s have the responsibility to weed out the weak and uncommitted recruits. thanks to crying about negative treatment now there are sh*tbags everywhere in the corps; thanks to everyone who whines. stay the hell outta this corps if ur not ready to commit to something that will make you the strongest you’ll ever be in your life. ooh rahh, Semper Fi.

  33. MullersLaneFarm Says:

    OHH RAH novTEN1775 !!

    My son is now SOI:ITB you’d think the slobs would’ve been weeded out, but NO, they’re falling asleep in classes, only waking to shoot the firearms. These are the men and women who are to be the left and the right of you and my son. I DON’T WANT THEM THERE!!! Put them in the Navy, put them in the Air Force, put them in the Army, hell, put them in the Girl Scouts but keep them the hell out of my son’s USMC!

    OOH RAH

    I may be ‘just’ a mother of a Marine, but I am ALWAYS FAITHFUL! SEMPER FI!

  34. Mike 3rd Bat Mike Co Aug 23 96 Says:

    Outstanding post sir. You are a trueman of character and dignity. ST I believe you, God bless your courage. I hope you can motivate other Marines to look past Assbirds like your failure of a DI as well as the flunky wannabes like Canipe. Good Marines live with honor & honor does not allow one to needlessly beat a fresh recruit.
    Semper Fi

  35. CPL Judy A.C. Says:

    as a current soon to be unemployed marine, I appreciate you sir

  36. sgt of the crops Says:

    GySgt Dan Canipe atleast you still want a strong corps

    • ramblingbob Says:

      I do not think you are a real Marine, but are only a poser. I cannot stand the type, you neither write like a Marine or sound like one. I detest a a—— who tries to impersonate a Man who has served his country, please stay off my blog.

  37. George Says:

    No one has even mentioned that the women are not treated this this level of discipline or that they meet the same physical requirements, yet they are placed in combat units with these men in the same jobs.

    There seems to be two Marine Corps, the “let’s not make waves and provide an easier path to be a Marine, and “they’re men, they need to up hold the standards of the Corps.

    Damn liberals anyway. We need both men and women in the services but don’t have two sets of standards to fill the same spots.

    • ramblingbob Says:

      I do not know where you get your information, but to the best of my knowledge Women Marines Boot camp is no picknick. And it is not Marine Corps policy to place females in combat situations, however they each and every one are Marine Corps Rifleman. They cannot graduate boot camp with qualifying. They wear the uniform and have earned the EGA, they are Marines. While visiting My grandson at Twenty Nine Palms, Marine base, in 2008 I saw a number of these young women in a construction battilion preforming what would be considered a man’s job in civillian life. If they wear the EGA then they are Marines in this old Marines eye. As for combat Marines we lost our Afghanistan veteran grandson on Jan. 5, 2010/ To all Marines former and serving Semper Fi male or female.

      • George Says:

        ramblingbob, I got my information from the U.S. Marine Corps web site. Men have a higher physical standard to maintain, regardles of their size and stature than the women.

        When I was in, a helicopter unit was considered a “combat” unit. And a crew chief/door gunner was considered a combatant.

        When I was in Vietnam, it was the close brotherhood that got us through each day. I’ve been married 34 years and I know that I could never have that same relationship with a woman.

      • George Says:

        I am sorry to hear about the loss of your Grandson.

  38. Change Needs to be MADE! Says:

    I AGREE with everyone who supports this recruit abuse! I am both shocked and appalled at this new attitude toward softening Recruit Training. FOR FUCK SAKE THE USMC IS MAKING KILLERS NOT BOY SCOUTS!!! There needs to be more DIs like Sgt. Heartman in Full Metal Jacket. These fucking soft ass cunts who condemn Sgt. Glass and other HARD CORE Drill Instructors need to be executed by a firing squad! They’re making Devil Dogs! Once you go to Boot Camp don’t expect to come out as the same person. They should be treating these recruits like convicts at Guantanamo Bay. Bashing their heads in with metal poles and laying into them with their fists and legs. They should come out retarded but immensely savage and aggressive with only one thing in mind ‘To KILL KILL KILL!’ Like pvt. Pyle. That’s how you make warriors. Shit…If MOA (Mothers Of America) and the politicians think this training is too tough they should research the Spetznaz training or the Ancient Spartans. They wouldn’t even THINK of softening their methods. ITS THE MARINE CORPS!!!! A branch of honor and loyalty but served by a bunch of crazy psychotic maniacs known as Marines! They kill not to defend their country but because they enjoy the bloodshed of their enemies. THEY’RE DEVIL DOGS!!! NOT SOLDIERS OF JESUS!

    • Calypso Says:

      PVT Pyle turned out to be a fucktarded loser who wound up killing his DI. Let’s hope all Marines don’t turn out like PVT Pyle you dumb fuck.

  39. Change Needs to be MADE! Says:

    I really am truly horrified with this new attitude for a “Softer Corps’. But after talking to a few Marines, I can assure you that Boot Camp HASN’T changed all that much. They still swear, cuss, push, first and shove recruits in BC. Maybe they don’t dismember their body parts but they are still up in their faces and barking like wild dogs. They push and shove them a lot and swear like they’re in an Olympic competition for the best cussing finalist. Hell…they could put a whole sentence together not using one word that wasn’t derogatory. THAT’S THE USMC!!! AND IT SHOULD STAY THAT WAY!! If you disagree with these ‘hardcore’ training methods then buy a gun and use it!

  40. david Says:

    This goes way back But Yes PI’s are better and yes all DI’s are trained at the same school (paris island). be there. second for the ones who talked to the sgt who can beat up a recruit ordered to stand there. ask him for the truth he seemed to have told you a bunch of horse sh*t. As for the other DI’s that witnessed this only one had to go to court the others continued the training of the Marines. Finally before responding to this I am a Marine still in the Marines and have witnessed several accounts of abuse from bootcamp to fleet. The Marines think it was so tough back in the day, when the civilains where not involved guess what they have always been there. and they are the ones who cause the most problems. Marines are very dumb. to prove it i bet the dumbest one will respond about 2 mins after this post and he will try to call me out saying I am one that slipped threw the cracks, that means the DI’s are not doing there job anyways right? second I have been in long enough to form an opinoin of the Marine Corps. the kids today are stupid and they join the Marines and are still stupid.

    Congress should go ahead and decommission the Corps and save us the money for the Airforce and Navy. thats been in the works for years by the way for those of you that do not know this.

    Math
    And
    Reading
    Is
    Not
    Expected
    Sir

    • ramblingbob Says:

      In my opinion you are a dumb ass go back and read your comment, it makes about as much sense as a horse shit sandwich. I doubt you are a marine at all.

      • Calypso Says:

        I’ve been reading all the comments on this post, and I completely agree with ramblingbob. I’m about to go to MCRD Parris Island in November. I’m not dumb; I took the ASVAB cold and got a 94 on it. Judging by the grammar and sentence structure of most of the comments by self-proclaimed “Marines”, you only go to show that it is you yourself who are dumb shits who didn’t learn how to read and write properly. I live next to Quantico Marine Corps Base, and I personally know a lot of Marines. They are intelligent and respectful people. I’m sure there are Marines who act irresponsibly, and some who are, well, dumb, but that’s beside the point. I’ve been trying to mentally prepare myself for a world of shit when I go to boot camp, but I don’t expect to get the shit beat out of me with a metal pole, disqualifying me for govt. use. @ Change Needs to be MADE, it seems you must have been beaten with a metal pole at some point in your life, because you are definitely retarded. The only thing is, I’m sure you aren’t “immensely savage and aggressive”, just a fucktarded moron. Hats off to the men and women who honorably serve in our military, and let justice have it’s way with those who feel they don’t have to abide by the UCMJ.

  41. Ed Says:

    MullersLaneFarm why do you continually put down the other services. You have no idea what its like to be in any of them. Have you ever heard of Special Forces, Navy Seals or Pararescue. Know your role lady.

    • MullersLaneFarm Says:

      Ed,
      I served proudly with the USAF 30 years ago.

      I knew my role then and I know my role now, mister.

      • ramblingbob Says:

        Thanks for your service, I pregate you by twenty years. And yes I respect what all services have done and appreciate their time and investment. ramblingbob

  42. Alison Says:

    I see the point you’re making. Yes there is a line that needs to be drawn and crossing it is abuse. I’m in the Army, my husband is an 0331 in the Marines. I think it’s ridiculous what’s happening to our military. There are shitbags everywhere. Discipline is practically nonexistent. I think this can go back to basic/boot being too easy. I think the Marines are more on track but I just got word that San Diego let’s them call home on occassion. WTF is that? You don’t NEED that.

    Boot should be about the bare essentials. Your TA-50 and your rifle. That’s all you NEED. It’s only a few months. If you can’t go that long without calling mommy how are you going to handle real combat? They should be allowed to touch us. You know what makes someone straighten up? Pain. That’s why theres the quarterdeck. But what about those who are physically fit enough that the quarterdeck isn’t enough? (I think pt needs to be tougher too. Have you seen some of the fatties in the military??) Should they be able to break bones or hurt you to the point that you get discharged?No. Should they be able to smack you around? Yes.

    This isn’t supposed to be easy. Every single branch is overcapacity right now. The Marine Corps has the lowest retention rate. Don’t you think it’s high time we made some changes?

    • ramblingbob Says:

      Alison, In no way do think boot camp for any service should be easy. And yes I think the standard has been lowered way to far. I admit I was a 129 pound weakling that barley made it through boot camp, but I did and was proud of myself for it. In my day we had no gang bangers or supremist in our midst. I feel that today a lot of the pride we had has evaporated. Do not get me wrong, I know many young real Marines today. At my grandson funeral this past Janurary I met a whole slew of intense young warriors, 700 in all, you could see in their eyes where thay had been, and what they had been through. If you have read my other chapters about the Marine’s you know what my grandson went through over there. While his death still burns in my heart, my pride in him knows no bounds. He is why I wear a dog tag every day at 72 yearss of age. I placed mine in his casket with him and had a new pair struck. Yes keep the Marine Corps tough and all the other services also. weed the magots and loafers out. But do not let a sadist reek havoc for his perverse pleasure. Thanks for your visit if nothing eles this chapter of the blog has raised a hell of a lot of comments.

  43. cherBey Says:

    I would like to say HOW DARE YOU, HOW DARE ANY OF YOU TAKE UP FOR ABUSE BY ANYONE IN THE MARINES. My son just graduated boot camp not to long ago and he is in MCT right now. I just go a phone call that he and some other recruits have been hospitalized over the abuse they receiveD while at boot camp. Mostly mental,perverted etc..not going into details right now trying to find out our sons rights…They have offered him a deal to just get out and let them handle it(ya right) NO ONE ABSOLUTELY NO one here in the united states has the right to abuse another under the title of our military.. WE PAY YOUR PAY CHECK! my taxes pay u not to abuse our own but to defend and train..dont hand me your bull crap about it Please. It does not take abuse to make better Marines it takes using ur brains and skills..
    FROM ONE ANGRY PARENT.. AND BY THE WAY I SERVED IN THE NAVY AND MY BROTHER IN NAVY SEALS WE NO THE TRUE MEANING OF TRAINING

    • George Says:

      I agree with you. When I graduated boot camp in 1972 I virtually carried my buddy to Pennsylvania where he was promptly admitted to the hospital and spent almost his entire leave there recovering from what the D.I.s did to us. I had been heavily involved in physical fitness and gymnastics so I fared better but still carried home the bruises from the kicks and punches. Leadership has nothing to do with abuse and torture. Boot camp should be physically and emotionally demanding to build strength and character. Kicking someone in the ribs that’s down on all fours then dropping down on their chest with a knee and punching them in the head is not training, that’s abuse.

  44. Alexander Says:

    Honestly every organization has its bad members, I don’t care if its the marines or a group back home. Random acts of abuse deos not make a tougher marine. It only lowers morale. Because the ones being hit, kicked etc. these day are seeing it as why would I want to be in a group that FU their own. I see Gnysgt, Ssgt and other marines on here posting blind defence of these DI’s because “This is the Marine Corps”. Well guess what.. You guys are ignorant and should get out of the USMC before you make it weaker by helping to keep guys that have no sence in the Corps. THERE ARE BAD MARINES. Maybe back 40 years ago you were beat the H out off but guess what this isnt 40 years ago and in truth you were the b*@#$ for takeing it. There are other ways of makeing a marine tough. If my DI ever smacked the s%#@ out of me I would have broke his damn nose because I will tell you this right now. The uniforms we wear as marines do not stop you from getting your A whooped. If we take our uniforms off guess what we are all just men. I cannot stand ignorance and this blind defence of abusive DI’s is more ignorant than anything.

  45. Makaman Says:

    There is so much more at stake here then Rbob Personal opinion. Cherbay and Rbob are Not the Grunt type clearly… I agree with the comment that says there may be a few abusive Drill instructors.. But the reason for it is to toughen Marines to the point that when the ENEMY treats them like a POW aka Torture until death in MOST CASES!! the Marine can HANDLE IT!!! I recognize there ARE BAD MARINES!! but your not seeing the long term affect. The Marine Corps is NOT for the weak. If you cant handle it your option is to get out of the corps. Alexander probably has a desk Job… Rbob Probably has a lot of feelings that have surfaced over time but have nothing to do with the ACTUAL MARINE MISSION!! First to FIGHT!!! not first to negotiate… speak clearley and intelligently and tell us why your thinking the marines need to change a lean green fighting Machine to a sensative bunch of individuals with Feelings… The Marines need to be ready to KILL… dont forget it. Im so sik of the people that dont understand!!! 0321 you may not like us but we have been killing for 235 years and AMERICA is the greatest place to live because of it!!

  46. markw Says:

    No person need to be hit in boot camp. That does not make them any better, it teach them it fine to hit men or women under them in there command. You look at it. If you hit your child when young , they think it fine to hit there kids. Hitting marines will help any thing. I hope they increase time for di that hit there men to 15yr in prison . Then other Di will find out it does not pay to hit there men or women. No person should be hit.

  47. USMC_Cpl Says:

    I myself have seen Marines die, those with who i trained and sweat. Its not real until it happens to you, you can be gung ho but until your brother in arms dies, the one you call your buddy is gone forever, it doesnt hit you in the heart… specially when you know their circumstances and situation back in the rear… For that, i feel the death of your grandson rambling bob, i just stumbled into your blog and have read every single post. Some of them ignorant, some others out of rage or just blind loyalty and a few with good basis.
    As a former team leader i have to say that you have to train your boots hard, and that means put your sensitivity aside cuz in a few months were gonna be in a combat zone fighting an evasive enemy whose only purpose is to see you die…
    I served 4 yrs in the USMC, and though i did get hit, slapped, it’d and spit on (but who doesnt) in boot camp, but ill have to say that those things were not the defining point of my short career in the corps. The only purpose of boot camp is to teach you discipline and the VERY BASICS of being a Marine… I agree with RB bout court martialing those who abuse recruits. It s easy to abuse the ones who you know are not gonna defend themselves… every single kid is scared to death in bootcamp (at least the first few weeks) and would do every single thing the DIs say to do…
    But the real Marines are formed in the fleet: the weeks spent in the field, the bond formed after coming back from a combat zone, the ones with who you push thru to get thru something will form a real Marine.
    Its gonna be almost a year since i got out, and am i a different person? do i see things in a different way? do i cherish life after being shot at and see my friends get blown by an IED? Yes, of course i do… at the same time i consider myself lucky of not being the one who stepped on it.
    Its the experience who changes and turns a civilian kid from the block into a Marine, not the diving into trash cans, punches to the face, or butt stocks on the face… and ive had some higher ups who were all bout that but ive also had some others who believe in training hard being tough on your Marines but also compasionate. And with no doubt in my mind, i would follow the latter ones, even to hell… Thats all i had to say

    Semper Fi

  48. Andy Says:

    I was a Marine Recruit back in spring of 2003. I was also abused by my drill instructors, but saw a lot of kids get even worse treatment than I did. The fact is, I observed a suicide during field day and witnessed a second attempted suicide. I saw a recruit retaliate against his DI during drill (he hit his DI in the back of the head with the butt of his M16). Another recruit came to me during chow at Pendleton screaming and fearing for his life because he was being beaten by his DI’s. I could see bootprints on his face and dried blood around them. Even though I was a couple years older, I couldn’t stand up for myself either. I tried to go unseen most of bootcamp but it didn’t last. I was singled out because I didn’t do well at PT and drill. I wasn’t the worst but I also wasn’t the best. Needless to say, our squad was ordered to drink 24 canteens of water in one day (and yes, I kept count). We were refused head calls all day and into the night when a DI stood guard outside the head. Some recruits pissed themselves and burst into tears. At one point I was told to strip naked and cover myself in sunscreen and roll in the sand. DI’s stood by watching and laughing. I qualified expert on the rifle range, to the surprise of most of my DI’s. Later on in bootcamp I was pushed into a ditch, resulting in a small fracture in my leg. This would end up being my way out, and it wasn’t that easy. As I said, most kids had it worse than me. I knew of two kids who died in their racks after being forced to train with pneumonia. Several others sprinted out of the squad bay in the middle of the night and jumped the fence to the San Diego airport, and ran across the runway until they were free.

    So my point is this: Sissy has nothing to do with it.

    • Ace 1995 Says:

      Excellent read. You make some good points. I went through in 1995 and experienced abuse. You should read my post down below. It’s under the name Ace. People think it just happens at P.I., but I think it happens just as much in San Diego.

  49. espantoso Says:

    I always heard that Marines in general were dumb, this conversation seems to have proven that point. There are some intelligent ones on here, but all of the ones who can’t distinguish between abuse and training are, to say the least, nothing short of asinine. I doubt many of them have actually served in the Marines. I myself am not a Marine, but I am currently serving in the Army as a Combat Engineer. Marines like to talk about how much tougher things are for them, and maybe they are, I don’t know, but it is obvious that striking a recruit is over the line. If the Marines ever wonders why retention is so low maybe they should do a little introspection. My brother is a Marine, and he said that boot camp sucked, but he didn’t suffer any abuse like this. His DI’s apparently knew the regs and followed them. Do you really want today’s Marines to be trained to not follow regs? They can’t just do whatever they want because they are Marines, that would be disastrous. People say that this will give the corps a bad name, but there is nothing shameful in following the regs. If you want Marines to turn out to be a bunch of criminals then yeah, go ahead and let them do this stuff. Marines need to not tolerate criminal behavior, and for those morons that think that abuses should be handled in house, that will just create more problems. I lived in Okinawa when those 3 Marines raped that little Okinawan girl. Every non-marine found it very hard to trust the Marines there after that. We didn’t see them as the best of the best anymore, but as a bunch of two-bit thugs. That is when I decided that I didn’t want any part of the corps,before that incident being a Marine was my dream. Don’t let this happen again to some other kid that dreams of being a Marine someday.

  50. Vickie Says:

    My son is a Marine he is in Twentynine Palms right now. It was not bad for him in boot camp, but the platoon he is in now is what everone here is talking about. He has been hazed extreamly bad and they stole from him and his room mate when they would leave for the weekend. When they went to their leader they were told the only thing that could be done was they would have to stay on base do rover duty to make sure their stuff and no one else’s was taken anymore. I wanted my son to be proud to be a Marine and he is not and quit frankly everything I have heard from the guys he brings home with him and everything I read being a Marine it’s not something to be proud of any more. I am very proud of my son he has been put threw HELL and still keeps his head high just trying to get threw his last year

  51. GSCWUSMC Says:

    Being a Marine is something Marines are very proud of. I’m not sure what you are reading or where you are reading it, but comments from a few do not provide a resounding opinion from The Few.

    “These recruits are entrusted to my care. I will develop them into smartly disciplined, physically fit, basically trained Marines, thoroughly indoctrinated in love of Corps and Country. I will demand of them and demonstrate, by my own example, the highest standards of personal conduct, morality, and professional skill.”

    Striking recruits is no more acceptable than it would be if I were to strike your father, mother, sister, or brother. You’d be ready to defend them and I would deserve the consequences of my actions.

    Being a recruit does not make it ok for me to strike you or that you have to take being struck with tent poles and flashlights. Ever dodge a tent pole in combat? Let me guess…You were attacked by Nazis, Japanese, Germans, Koreans, Iraqis, or Afghanis (depending on which era you served) with mag lights or elements from a Coleman Tent kit?

    The individuals Bob refers to deserved the punishment they received and our Corps is better without them. They are subject to the same articles of the UCMJ that you were when you served. They are also subject to the same articles of the UCMJ as the RECRUIT. For the individuals who think it’s ok to strike recruits, thanks for your service, but our Corps is better without you too. I’m guessing from what I’ve read, some of you probably were lucky enough to dodge an Article 31 in your career or term of enlistment.

    Bob, thank you for your post, and I would like to extend my sympathy to you and your family for the loss of your Grandson. Semper Fidelis

    Quote of the Day: “You can’t cure stupid”…Unknown

  52. usmcretgunny Says:

    This blog is definitely interesting, to say the least! I know what bootcamp is like, having been there both as recruit and drill instructor. Yes, when I went thru there were more hands on training, but not to the degree I have heard here. By the way, I went thru boot camp in 1971; Vietnam was still going on and my drill instructors were right out of country. I would like to see each and everyone of them, to personally thank them for the training I received and to let them know they paved the way for the success I have had. I went back to the drill field in 1977, I must say we trained our recruits hard (pushing as hard as we could), and we bent the line as far as we could without breaking it. There were often times when you just wanted to wail on a recruit, but you also knew the contents of the SOP. I am not saying that we never broke the SOP (because we did), but your fellow drill instructor’s also let you know. It’s not that we are training punks are anything else, but as you have noticed here the Marine Corps is under constant observance from people who would love to see our beloved Corps disappear! You don’t have to hit a recruit to train them, there are ways to punish him/her to the point that they would consider being hit – better for them! It seems this conversation comes up with every generation – boot camp was tougher back then! The majority of the drill instructors I worked with felt that an “unproven recruit” wasn’t worth losing there career over. You train them all alike, if one can’t make it with some extra incentives – drop them. They may be recycled, or they maybe processed for discharge. Each and everyone of us, who went thru boot camp remember there were some recruits that would never make it as a Marine with no amount of abuse! We got tired of paying the price for them, so get them out and carry on! And to all the true Marine’s on this site – Semper FI!!

    • ramblingbob Says:

      Well I see this article has still been generating a fire storm after all these many months. I have not been on for more than six weeks maybe more, due to personal health issues and my wife’s very serious back operation ( her twelfth) this time they inserted steel rods on both sides of her spine on the seven lumbar vertrabry. for a total of14 vertical and eight cross rods. She is doing remarkably well, walking with the aid of a walker, today over 3 foot ball field length around outside our house. I appreciate all of your comments and thank you for reading my stuff and to all marines former and present, Semper Fi, yea there are a few bad apples but the majorty are all brothers. As my grandson said once shortly before he died when helping me out of the car at a low curb, “He aint heavy he’s my brother.” one of my proudest memories.

  53. Julia Says:

    Here’s my point of view. I stand on my freedom of speech thanks to the men and women who have fought valiantly for it. With that being said, I work for an institution where 87% of it’s members are military personnel, mainly Marines. Day in and day out I have to deal with Marine’s mom (sometimes dads) that need to cut the cord. If your son/daughter was grown enough to join the military then they should be grown enough to deal with it. They didn’t sign up for summer camp. Should they every be caught in the situation where they are encountered by the enemy, the enemy isn’t going to give them the time to call home and get their mommy/daddy to argue why they should be treated better. Man/Woman up! Cruelty and abuse in a training situation? A bit too far, I’ll agree, but the enemy is not going to give them special treatment in the actual situation either.

  54. ZjosephF Says:

    As a pretty new US Marine, I must honestly say that the fact that people complain about recruits getting ‘mistreated’ is bull. I fully expected to get beat in boot camp, something like that. Worst that happened to me was I was choked out while cleaning my rifle. I truly wish that boot camp was as hard on recruits as it used to be. When I went through, there were a fair few whiners and spoiled little brats who wanted to be Marines. Had the Drill Instructors been allowed to lay hands on us, they wouldn’t have made it. They hadn’t done a difficult thing in their life. Instead, they slipped through the cracks, and we have a word for that. S***bags. Don’t deserve the title, don’t live up to the Eagle. Globe, and Anchors upon their covers and left breast pocket. Parents have been complaining about their children being ‘abused’ for awhile, if I remember correctly. So the Corps had to stop treating the recruits like recruits, and more like civilians. I hate it because there are those Marines that slipped through the cracks that won’t remember what they’ve learned, and won’t care enough to stay in top condition. As a result, good Marines will probably die. Fight it all you want, but weaker boot camp makes weaker Marines, and weaker Marines won’t save lives. So many of the names you see on the news? Headlines that speak of one or two heroes lost? You can blame a s***bag who got through thanks to Mothers of America and all the whiny parents that got boot camp changed.

    • Calypso Says:

      I’d like to say IEDs have a major role in heroes lost. Not saying that “shitbags” don’t slip through the cracks and fuck up in the USMC, but I just look at the statistics. So if you’re saying that the names we see in the news and headlines are mostly the result of s***bags Marines, you dishonor the majority of those who died in OIF/OEF, because they died in combat, either from IEDs, or direct/indirect fire. Sorry ZjosephF, try again.

  55. THOMAS J STORIN Says:

    I was a three tour V.N. vet…I was Air Force…After a crash we were held for 11 days by the bad guys…They knocked the hell out of us. I wish I had had the training that the Marines have…Perhaps we would have been better prepared. I know there is abuse in ALL branches and I too believe that there should be limits to what recruits go through…That said, I still believe that the majority of D.Is. are good at what they do…Main job is to make MEN out of BOYS. To make sure they are the best they can be. To make sure they SURVIVE when the need comes..
    I would add…that it was MARINES…young MEN, who saved our asses. Just saying back then

  56. Sky Says:

    I keep hearing about “Mothers of America” but I can’t find a website or any contact info about them online. I disagree with them about some things and would like to express it to them personally.
    Do you (or any of your readers) know where I can get in touch with that organization? I’ve googled a lot and can’t find anything with that particular name on it.

  57. A.B Says:

    To the above comment by Johnny. You have no idea what you would do if forced into that environment. Comming from a family of marines and a spouse of a marine, no civilian has any right to tell the corps what to do. The corps has been winning wars and battles since before any of us were born..apparently its working. If you want the enemy to see our forces as a bunch of candy ass pushovers then the power to that lame cause. Marines are the best and are meant to be feared, so complainers get over it. Marines are the best force we have.. the instructors know their job. They dont tell you how to do yours so let them do theirs. They are the experts not us. Dumb causes like this are making the US a joke to the enemy.

  58. Johnny Reb Says:

    GySgt Dan Canipe is correct in identifying that you were never a Marine. Once a Marine always a Marine and you don’t even speak the jargon or have the swagger of a brother. Shut up.

  59. Johnny Reb Says:

    I was a Drill Instructor during the Viet Nam war and I was as hard as I could be on the recruits. I didn’t want to be responsible for thier deaths by not pushing them to thier limit. My mother tried to interfere when I was in boot camp. I told her to get the hell out of my training as I was training for war and didn’t think mom was the right person to train me for this.

  60. Anthony from Indianapolis Says:

    This “back when I was a Marine, it was a lot tougher” talk is pure bullshit. We were told we were the “Pepsi Generation”. That was twenty three years ago. I guess some things never change. I wouldn’t doubt that people that fought in WWll thought Vietnam Marines were drug smoking hippies.

    In any case, there is a difference between training a recruit and abuse. Do you want your kids to be marched into a swamp and drowned like in the 1950s?

    I joined the Marines in 1988 and I expected the Full Metal Jacket treatment. I was hardly hit, but the DIs had us doing bullshit that had us begging to get hit instead.

    After boot camp, us new Marines had to hear the same bull about how much it was “tougher” back in the 1970s because they were beaten. Big fucking deal. I was not beaten like a mule in boot camp but boot camp was still pretty rough. Two years later, when the bullets were flying by head in Kuwait, I was not thinking “Man, I wish my DIs would have punched me in the face more. That would have really made me tougher”. I used the TRAINING I was taught to get me through in one piece. Nothing prepares you for war, not even being hit with a tent-pole.

    My son is 4 years old. I don’t want him to join the Marines when he gets older. If by chance he does and I find out that some DI hit him with a tent pole, you can bet your ass I will be on the first plane to San Diego or Parris Island and I will have my K-Bar with me and that DI that hit my son will be missing some fingers, his nose, and maybe his Johnson. I haven’t forgotten how to use my blade, “Shequita”.

    Sorry, but you “old corps” guys can take your boot camp stories and shove them up your collective asses. Get over yourselves. Your stories from 1971 don’t impress me. The Marines I served with in 6th Marines went through the same “New Corps” boot camp I went through. Those were some of the baddest MFers I have ever seen in my life. I would take 6th Marines of 1990-91 over any other Marine Unit from your “era”.

    The Marines seem to be doing a fine job in Iraq and Afghanistan, just like we did in Desert Storm when I was in, just like Marines in Vietnam, WWll, and WWl.

    Boot camp has evolved, but the results are still the same. You old farts better deal with it. The Marine Corps hasn’t stopped killing America’s foes and planting flags in enemy territories just because boot camp isn’t as “tough” as it was in 1927. There is still pride in being a Marine and it will go on as long as there is an America.

    This whole conversation is horse shit.

    • Calypso Says:

      I completely agree with and appreciate this comment. Couldn’t have explained my position in this argument any better, Anthony.

  61. mama Says:

    The US government plays on the heart tug emotions of this country. The US went to war not for defending but out of greed. The US government allows outsiders in this country to be trained free and then use it against us. The United States is not much different than the other countries who send children out to war with bombs on them. The United States just signs up teenagers, calls them recruits and puts guns in their hands. The United States just gives it a different name.

    YES there are drill instructors who abuse the recruits. And YES everything you hear happens and probably 100 times worse. Some recruits don’t get the beatings and mistreatment. It depends on the group they are with and the drill instructor. Don’t believe the abuse does not happen. IT DOES. When you look at your son or daughter’s graduation picture feel blessed your child was not beaten so badly that you could see his face and eye swollen three times the other side of his face. Feel blessed your child’s head does not have a large lump that you can visibly see. Feel blessed you didn’t have to bring your child to the emergency room after returning home from boot camp because their body is in shock. Feel blessed your child came home to you alive after boot camp. Some Don’t. The recruits are treated even worse if its reported. The recruiters lie to people and promise them things that don’t exist just to get them to sign. It happens every day. This government allows them to prey on our children while they are in school.

    There are so many things our children are not allowed to do until age 21 but our government allows them to kill at 18.

    We are all being brain washed. We just don’t have the mega phones in our homes….yet.

  62. mama Says:

    55 marine recruits have died in or because of boot camp.
    This should not be happening!!!!!

    • BB Says:

      I don’t know if that’s true or not. Even if so, Boot Camp has been going on since around 1916 (roughly). That’s about 1 death per 2 years. He has a higher change of death walking to school. Not making excuses, but there are things doctors don’t catch when the recruit is being processed, training accidents happen, and of course there is the occasional abusive Drill Instructor. Ribbon Creek comes to mind. But let’s let the Corps handle it. They have no interest in a dead recruit either.

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  64. USMC Says:

    You crying whiny ass people are the exact reason why my beloved Marine Corps is so pussified. Men join to kill, not to be caudled, And for you parents out there that let the t.v. raise your kids and then allow them to join the Marines giving us who recieve these poor excuses for patriots only five months to get them ready to fight, You set us up for failure. You f-ing disgust me.

    • George Says:

      Explain to all of us as to what value is there in beating some one who is not allowed to defend himself. Allow a recruit to fight back and perhaps lose, maybe, but not just take a beating. Idiot!

    • Calypso Says:

      @ USMC: don’t be a poser. I know there have been a lot of posers posting, but to use “USMC” for your name, and to misrepresent the Marine Corps’ position on this subject, is completely asinine. Don’t be a poser, it f-ing disgusts me, and every other normal person on this post.

  65. Wade Hatton Says:

    come on guys …you know the Marines a bunch of sisses ,most uneducated branch of the services ,smallest in stature…You knew the con in boot camp when you looked around and saw 80 guys your face in the mirror

    • BB Says:

      Interesting that you post this sort of garbage on the internet instead of in person. I’m 6’1″ and have a graduate degree. What about you?

  66. Ace 1995 Says:

    It’s not about whether physical abuse is really necessary for training. It’s about whether or not it’s o.k. for someone in an authoritatian position acting as a mentor to openly defy the rules and then expect the student to follow them. Do you think that when the abusive D.I.’s are confronted with the accusations, they automatically admit to them because it’s the honorable thing to do? I would think the vast majority of the time, they don’t. I was at MCRD in San Diego in 1995 and I can tell you that I experienced abuse and witnessed a drill instructor trying to get a recruit to cover up his own irresponsible actions. My second day there, our recieving D.I. was ordering recruits to abuse one another. It happened to me. The physical damage wasn’t the point. It was the horror of realizing that you were in a place with no rules and nothing you could rely on. And we’re supposed to trust and respect men who behave in this manner? Ignore the rules and try to get recruits to lie about your actions? I couldn’t respect them, and I never did. I made it a point to not graduate that place, and one month later was released for “Failure to Adapt”. I can accept the criticism that my leaving was not the honorable thing to do. In some ways, I do regret breaking my word, but as far as I’m concerned, the Marine Corps broke its word by tolerating such actions.

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  72. matt bruning Says:

    First off, it’s “Corps” not “core” or “corp”. We are not the center of the earth or a global conglomerate. Second off, should recruits be able to take a beating?….yes, they should. I took some shots and I never complained about it. I took it to be part of the game, so to speak. That said, I hold Marine Corps Orders and the guidance of the Commandant to be sacrosanct. If the Commandant says that D.I.s shouldn’t beat recruits, they should not beat recruits. In my opinion, I love to hear stories like this because 1) a recruit who can’t take a beating has identified himself; and 2) a NCO or SNCO who can’t follow very simple orders passed down from the Commandant himself has identified himself. Bottom line: Marines follow orders, whether they are good orders or not.

  73. ssgtusmc Says:

    in every walk of life people are different. no matter what profession their in. either it be police officers,d.i.’s ,adminisator, bank tellers, waitresses, teachers and so on. there is are good and bad in everyone. some people make mistakes others abuse their authority. but as a former marine i alway believe in taking care of my marines, setting the best example for them.and if they got in trouble for what every reason a good tongue lashing never hard anyones feeling. i did get my couple of licks while in boot camp but it didn’t kill me and than again every marine after graduation from boot camp can make some stories about how tough their D.I.s were.so i don’t think its fair to cruified the the marine corps because a couple of d.i.s abusing their authority.

  74. Rick Latham (Former US Marine) not of the new breed Says:

    Unfortunately, another author who has no clue about the CORPS. Somebody must of been crying to mommy and daddy! If it was the recruit, please, get him out of my Corps! Yes, I do believe the new design of the Corps is damaging what this force is all about. I have been in the Navy, Army and the Marine Corps. The Corps for nearly 8 years, and there is nothing out their touching it. Quit lying to yourself.

  75. m. Says:

    My son is finished with boot camp at San Diego. He mentioned that several of the guys in his comp. were beat and had fractures and broken bones. If the DI didn’t like you, you ended up with serious injuries.
    Drill the hell out of them, yell at them, whatever, but breaking bones is wrong. Suicide attempts are rampant in this comp. War is hell and I want my son rid of all fear before he goes. But beatings so severe by the DI are wrong.

  76. Antonio Says:

    I became a DI at MCRD PI, twenty years after I went through boot camp at MCRD SanDiego, thus seen both drill fields and DIs were not allowed to mistreat us and thus when I became a DI, I feel that I didn’t abuse nor mistreated my recruits. I had broken time between my 1st enlistment and returning back and fishing my time for retirement. If DI abuse or mistreat anyone they deserve to pay

  77. Jen Says:

    well said RamblingBob and good on you for your morale courage.

  78. gil vogler Says:

    I am of the old Corps. Left Parris Island South Carolina August 24th
    1963. We had it tough and yes there was abuse.Though you can’t even imagine abuse until you serve in a war zone.Do you really think the enemy is going to be humane? Like people say we are a “few,The Proud” If you can’t hack it move on, the Army will be glad to have you.I personally wouldn’t trade my time in the Corps and feel they taught me a lot about this world and how to survive.
    Cpl. Gil Vogler

  79. BB Says:

    I went to boot camp in 1979. Hard to think of that as Old Corps, but when you hit your 50s I guess the majority of those who have served are now younger. In those days, Drill Instructors were not allowed to hit you. I’m not saying it happened, but they weren’t allowed. There’s a part of me that thinks Boot Camp has gotten easier. There’s also a part of me that thinks it’s more challenging. The most we ever ran was 5 miles, but we wore combat boots. They hadn’t started with the whole “go-fasters” thing back then. Boot Camp is supposed to stress the recruit out so that if he (or she) finds himself (or herself) in combat, it won’t be a completely alien environment. Anything that detracts from that stress reduces the ability of the recruit to function in high-stress situations. That being said, is it really necessary to stuff a recruit in a garbage can or to hit him with a pole? Something tells me this instance was just abuse. However, I’ll leave it to the Marine Corps, the UCMJ, and the chain of command to sort it out. But don’t make it so easy that the recruit doesn’t feel stressed during pretty much all waking hours or you’re doing him a disservice.

  80. Donald Lawrence Says:

    I think some Marine Corps NCO’s are forgetting who the ultimate bosses are. The “boss” is the civilian US taxpayer! These people are not filthy or dirty. They pay for the beloved Corps and are ultimately the people whom Marines serve through the US Constitution. I think it would be appropriate to remember why the Marine Corps exists in the first place. That protection covers the people who may not measure up to Marine standards. If they can’t do it, send them home with a confident pat on the back that at least they tried to do something most people refuse to even contemplate. That counts for something. Keep the standards sky high. Don’t ever compromise the standards. However, don’t beat or mistreat a young man or woman who is not able to make it through the program. Send them home with an understanding that their lives still have meaning. These are just my thoughts. I’m certain that the abusive comments will now follow!

  81. brian Says:

    good lord i went back to parris island its been 31 yrs what a change they cant even have r rated cadences ,cant wake them up with metal trash can and pipe just some of the things i noticed and i asked a drill instructor why his response bleeping mothers of america or mothers against the corps i am sick of bleeding hearts i dont want my Marine going to battle weak thinking the enemy will give him a break like i always say life sucks and the wife doesnt anymore god save the corps

  82. Aaron Says:

    Marines don’t serve the ‘US Taxpayer’. You aren’t our boss. We serve the United states, and we defend the country, our morals, and our rights, not the whims of the people. All threats foreign AND domestic… as in sometimes the threat comes from within. Yeah, would breaking a recruits’ arm, or blinding him, do any good? No. But do we need to make sure they get breaks when it gets too tough? Or that they’re not talked to in the ‘wrong’ manner? Start going easy on them? I’m sorry, but it’s training to fight a damned war. You’re tasked with going up against people who have every intention of killing you, and our job is to kill them first. We’re expected to be meaner, smarter, faster, and more efficient than our enemies. The last thing we need is to ‘go easy’ on these kids. I’m sorry, but boot camp these days does provide tons of knowledge and valuable information. What they have increasingly tried to take away is DISCIPLINE. All the training in the world will do you no good at all if you have Marines who do what they want, who quit when it gets tough, and who serve their OWN interests instead of looking out for their brothers in arms. Do we need to make sure recruits aren’t being abused? Yes. But stop confusing ‘training’ with abuse. You can’t make a Marine hard when his training is soft.

  83. Joseph Wagner Says:

    U.S. service record; 2540757. Years ago, the U.S. Marine Corp was encouraging us young Marines to illegally torture to the death Vietnamese prisoners, if they refused to give us information. I lost confidence in the U.S. Military, and began to have sympathy for the communist. I became ashamed of the uniform I wore. I saw myself as an unwilling oppressor, and I viewed myself as a German boy trapped in a Nazi uniform. The Marine Corp had taken advantage of my patriotism, and had encouraged me to go to such immoral extremes. I rebelled by being AWOL, not standing at attention, and telling an officer to go to hell. That enraged my military superiors. I just wanted to rid myself of the uniform I wore. I couldn’t be a good soldier after realizing I was on the evil side of a war. I told them I was confused who the true enemy was, and that I did not consider myself a Marine anymore, and they could lock me up, but I would come out and continue to rebel. That true statement made me feel so liberated. The U.S. could do what they wanted to this 18 year old body, but my spirit was liberated from being an ignorant oppressor in a uniform. Again, that enraged my superiors. A military psychiatrist had indicated that the Marine Corp had lost control of me and would not regain any discipline over me, and he recommended that the Marine Corp discharge me and let me go. But the Marine Corp had other plans for me.

    MY FATHER KEPT THE U.S. MARINE CORP FROM KILLING ME.
    I then found myself shivering in a cold Marine brig cell without adequate food or clothing to keep me warm. My diet was restricted to unflavored and unsalted mush or bread and water with a daily calorie limit, and my bed was removed from my cell because I was using the blanket or bedding to keep warm. The cold tile of my cell floor and walls pulled the heat out of my slender body. I started having trouble breathing, but I was refused medical attention. The Marine guard told me I was just a wimp when I asked for medical attention. I was transferred, and I was still refused medical attention as the breathing problem was getting worse. When my father came to visit me, he was shocked, because I could not walk, due to the lack of breath. Immediately, I was put in the hospital with pneumonia that had become pleurisy. Weeks later I left the hospital and I was immediately given a general discharge on the fact that I would not conform to U.S. Marine Corp discipline again. The military falsely tried to accuse me of acting sociopathic. Had my father not intervened, I would have died in another couple of days. It’s clear that these U.S. Marine Corp authorities were the true sociopaths, by operating illegally and so cruelly in war and with my near death situation. I couldn’t be a good soldier after knowing I was on the evil side of a war. Americans didn’t believe me when I told them, that we young U.S. Marines were being encourage to torture to the death the Vietnamese prisoners. We deserved to lose that war.
    Recently, whistle blower Bradley Manning was another victim of U.S. Marine Corp rage, who was put naked in a Marine Corp brig cell, until President Obama intervened, and took him out of the illegal and cruel hands of the sociopathic U.S. Marines.
    Today, the U.S. Military denies that they illegally trained and dealt with me, and that I faced death in their pursuit to get me to conform. Yet they have the record 2540757 that proves my story true.
    Joseph Wagner

  84. Joseph Wagner Says:

    I was 17 and from the NY area and I had this DI S S McKay from Georgia. He didn’t like my accent and one day I laughed when no one else laughed. He called me into his room and the door was shut. I was bigger then him and I could of put him on the floor, but instead I let him beat on me while he demanded I come to attention after receiving each blow from his fist. I saw this jerk as a representative of my government. There was no way to complain. To me my government was also a jerk now. Time passed and I finally realized I couldn’t be a good Marine when I felt I was on the evil side of the war. The Marine Corp had encouraging us young Marines to torture to the death if the Vietnamese Prisoner refused to give us information. Here’s the story
    U.S. service record; 2540757. Years ago, the U.S. Marine Corp was encouraging us young Marines to illegally torture to the death Vietnamese prisoners, if they refused to give us information. I lost confidence in the U.S. Military, and began to have sympathy for the communist. I became ashamed of the uniform I wore. I saw myself as an unwilling oppressor, and I viewed myself as a German boy trapped in a Nazi uniform. The Marine Corp had taken advantage of my patriotism, and had encouraged me to go to such immoral extremes. I rebelled by being AWOL, not standing at attention, and telling an officer to go to hell. That enraged my military superiors. I just wanted to rid myself of the uniform I wore. I couldn’t be a good soldier after realizing I was on the evil side of a war. I told them I was confused who the true enemy was, and that I did not consider myself a Marine anymore, and they could lock me up, but I would come out and continue to rebel. That true statement made me feel so liberated. The U.S. could do what they wanted to this 18 year old body, but my spirit was liberated from being an ignorant oppressor in a uniform. Again, that enraged my superiors. A military psychiatrist had indicated that the Marine Corp had lost control of me and would not regain any discipline over me, and he recommended that the Marine Corp discharge me and let me go. But the Marine Corp had other plans for me.

    MY FATHER KEPT THE U.S. MARINE CORP FROM KILLING ME.
    I then found myself shivering in a cold Marine brig cell without adequate food or clothing to keep me warm. My diet was restricted to unflavored and unsalted mush or bread and water with a daily calorie limit, and my bed was removed from my cell because I was using the blanket or bedding to keep warm. The cold tile of my cell floor and walls pulled the heat out of my slender body. I started having trouble breathing, but I was refused medical attention. The Marine guard told me I was just a wimp when I asked for medical attention. I was transferred, and I was still refused medical attention as the breathing problem was getting worse. When my father came to visit me, he was shocked, because I could not walk, due to the lack of breath. Immediately, I was put in the hospital with pneumonia that had become pleurisy. Weeks later I left the hospital and I was immediately given a general discharge on the fact that I would not conform to U.S. Marine Corp discipline again. The military falsely tried to accuse me of acting sociopathic. Had my father not intervened, I would have died in another couple of days. It’s clear that these U.S. Marine Corp authorities were the true sociopaths, by operating illegally and so cruelly in war and with my near death situation. I couldn’t be a good soldier after knowing I was on the evil side of a war. Americans didn’t believe me when I told them, that we young U.S. Marines were being encourage to torture to the death the Vietnamese prisoners. We deserved to lose that war.
    Recently, whistle blower Bradley Manning was another victim of U.S. Marine Corp rage, who was put naked in a Marine Corp brig cell, until President Obama intervened, and took him out of the illegal and cruel hands of the sociopathic U.S. Marines.
    Today, the U.S. Military denies that they illegally trained and dealt with me, and that I faced death in their pursuit to get me to conform. Yet they have the record 2540757 that proves my story true.
    Today I live in Brazil and my Brazilian wife and I are raising adopted children. Here is a letter I just wrote to the Brazilian President.

    Dear President Rousseff,

    On behalf of us more decent American people, we deeply apologize for our U.S. Government’s behavior, with its over reach into the professional and personal affairs of yourself and other Brazilians. There is no excuse for our U.S. Government’s bad behavior.
    President Obama is one of the best of us Americans, and he was our hope to display to the world a more decent America, yet there continues to be a fascist wind blowing through America which increases in strength year after year. It is only a matter of time before the roles will be reversed, and Nations of the World will be condemning the U.S. Government for lawlessness and individual rights abuse. Just in the last couple decades, a post Cold War United States has become arrogantly self confident as the sole superpower, and while believing that we are God’s gift to the World, in reality America has become a bully. “Give us whistle blower Edward Snowden or we will do bad things to your weak little country”, is the U.S. Government’s message to every nation today. This is what we decent Americans describe as bullying. Why can’t we Americans have a government we can be proud of, because it behaves itself internationally and domestically? It is we who are truly the naughty nation.
    Already our U.S. Government is protecting terrorist in Miami, such as terrorist Luis Posada Carriles.
    Already our U.S. Government is keeping people jailed indefinitely without trial or evidence, such as Guantanamo Prison.
    Already our U.S. Government has illegally tortured Muslim prisoners, such as water boarding.
    Already our U.S. Government knowingly used false intelligence to justify invading another country, such as Iraq.
    Already our U.S. Government is secretly violating Constitutional Law of freedom to privacy, such as NSA surveillance of all private information.
    Already our U.S. Government has allowed innocent people to be executed in Texas and Florida, such as Cameron Willingham and Leo Jones. Then American Law Enforcement wants us citizens to accept their deception that it’s OK and only natural to make a few mistakes with the death penalty. But these cases were not mere mistakes, but rather, the aggressive arrogance of American Law Enforcement that drove these innocent men to their executions wrongly. In other words, these men were innocent of the crimes they were executed for and the government knew that they were executing innocent men. “Prosecutor’s Immunity” is a government’s nice way of saying that the State can immorally and unjustly abuse a defendant without any worry of legal repercussions. And so, nobody is responsible for executing these innocent men. The government claims these men got a fair trial. How can trials be fair when innocent men are executed in the U.S..
    We Americans are not exceptionable in any positive way, but rather we Americans are instinctively prone to greed, arrogance, fascism, cruelty, sadistic torture, false propaganda, and lawlessness, with a romantic bent towards war. The romance of war and violence is part of the foundation of our culture, and our American literature and films are a display of that proof. Peace is boring and after every ten years of peace we Americans needed a war to break the monotony of peace. The U.S. Government has made horrific bad decisions when it come to war, and now we citizens are becoming self critical.
    Contrary to what our U.S. leaders will say, Russian President Putin has made a great positive connection with us American people in a letter addressed to us in the New York Times. He is correct, our government displays lawlessness both internationally and domestically, and today there is a disconnect developing between the American people and their government. After all, over 57% of the American people don’t want the Cuban Embargo, yet the Cuban Embargo continues festering in the Caribbean. So much for democratic success in the U.S.. It is an American hope that a respectable nation, like Brazil, would mediate and negotiate peace between our country and Cuba, to end this cruel embargo. In other words, we need your help.
    Today, America is morally at its lowest and many of us older Americans have an intuition that we are on a continual descent. President Obama had been our hope to correct the wrong. Now our embarrassment and inability to prosecute former President G.W. Bush for torture and war crimes is a strong indication that it will be only a matter of time before another U.S. President can easily and more aggressively violate decency and law without any legal repercussions. As we say in English, “The hand writing is on the wall”, for this to occur. Many Americans are nervous about what will come after President Obama leave office, because decency and the rule of law has been disregarded for so long.
    So one can see that it won’t take many transitions for nations, that in the past the U.S. had condemned, to become better and more benevolent then the U.S. is today. Someday, decent Americans will be running to places like Cuba, Brazil, Canada, Russia, etc. to escape the heavy fascist fist of the U.S., and slowly the creativity and freedom of our progressive, creative, American culture will fade, while another more worthy nation, (such as Brazil), will excel were we have failed.
    Maybe in the near future Brazil will find itself with the responsibility as the protector of this hemisphere, because the U.S. Government has lost its moral authority while slipping into a state of indecency and lawlessness. From my experience, I believe the peace loving Brazilian people can be trusted with that responsibility. Who in this world doesn’t love and respect Brazilians?
    Today, if you presented your complaint about our government to the American people, more then likely the majority of the American people would agree with you as they did with President Putin. Again, on behalf of us more decent Americans we apologize for our government’s bad behavior. God bless you and your people, Joseph Wagner

  85. Cyndi Says:

    The only thing I agree with is your last two sentences.

    On behalf of us more decent Americans we apologize for our government’s bad behavior (of the last 7 years). God bless you and your people,

  86. Richard Weygint Says:

    I think it is the consensus in these comments that the Marines are not for pussies. War is hell and stop your crying. Fucking civilians. Marines are Warriors. Semper Fi

  87. Aaron Says:

    It’s cause we allow women in the marines. The drill instructors have to be nicer. I’m talking trash on women. Women are perfectly capable of doing everything a man can do in the military. It’s just the women need to man up and take what the men do. It’s that simple.

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